I haven’t seen Rachel in 4 or 5 months but there’s no question in my mind that she’s dating someone. She’s always dating someone. In the 12 — wow has it been that long … — years I’ve known her she’s only not been dating someone for a few months at a time — and even then she has a prospect. It’s important to note that these aren’t one-off relationships. These are deep, meaningful relationships with people that she remains friends with 80-90% of the time.
We were talking about this situation — her dating situation — over salads in Madison Square Park the other day. I was saying that above paragraph except put “you” in place of “she” and change whatever other pronouns you need to, and she was saying things like this:
- Rachel – Yeah, but that’s because I ask these people out.
- Me – Hhmm elaborate.
- Rachel – I determine I like someone and then I say, “I like you, do you want to go on a date?”
- Me – I’m sorry, what?
- Rachel — Yeah, or sometimes I say, “I think you’re cute — let’s go on a date.”
- Me — And then what?
- Rachel — They either say ok or something like, now’s not a good time for me or whatever they want to say if they don’t want to go out with me.
- Me – Right — makes sense. So when do you do this?
- Rachel – As soon as I can usually. I mean, why would I waste my time if they don’t like me or I end up going on a date and not liking them? And what if I don’t ask them and then someone else does first?
It’s hard to respond to all that because all of those things are absolutely true and yet never factor into my thought process as I’m too busy thinking, “well, now could be a good time but my hair is in a bun and generally looks better in a low, side pony so I should probably wait to make my move.”
Do I want to waste my time? No never. But would I rather waste three full years rather than be embarrassed for three full minutes? Yes, absolutely except more like six…years. Aren’t I ever worried that someone else is going to get them first? Stop saying that! You might make it happen!!
Rachel didn’t stop at that, of course. She wanted to be sure to present so much logic and statistical success that I might be shamed into listening to her. Might, of course, because we all know strong logic and clear statistical evidence are no match for but-what-if-I-have-to-see-him-in-a-bar-within-a-year-from-the-rejection?!?!
- Rachel – I mean, bottom line, I am a strong person and I want to be a strong person in a relationship. So I want people to know that up front which is why I pursue them, so it’s clear that I’m bold and fairly confident. And I only want to date people who are comfortable with confident people so it always works out. Almost all of my relationships have been with someone who really liked that I was confident. And I think almost every single one of those relationships started because I approached the person.
I need to pause to call out the fact that Rachel is a lesbian. I mention this now and not at the top of the post because if I had you’d have read the entire post thinking, “yeah but she’s a lesbian so it’s totally different.” Pieces of “it” (here representing the dynamic between the same sex in dating vs. opposite sexes) are different, yes. But the most significant among them is that Rachel isn’t accountable to specific gender roles that wedge us into place. Straight girls shouldn’t ask guys out — some thought processes hold. Straight guys don’t want to be with obviously more dominant woman — is a frequent school of thought. So yes, Rachel isn’t approaching this from exactly the same set up as guy/girl daters, but that doesn’t change the logic it only changes the stereotype and expectation.
Everything about her “why I do it” makes sense. People who like confident people like that they’re confident. People show that they’re confident and bold by making first moves. Successful relationships are the result of people being true to themselves. And further — if you ask people out that you like you can determine if they like you. Yes, evaluating their Facebook behavior, watching them like a hawk while in bars, consulting every single one of your friends on the issue, and booby trapping them with fake dates may also help you figure out if they like you, but read all that again and tell me how you feel about yourself?
Two minutes of maybe awkward and it can allll be over. It’s very, very convincing. Every “but what if…” running through your mind is right — you could get rejected, you could be embarrassed, you could feel super awkward around that person in the future. But then it’s done. And 9 times out of 10 you’ll grow apart and move on because the only reason you were associating with the person was to continue to evaluate if they like you too.
- Rachel — I mean, listen, it doesn’t work for everyone. Some people just can’t handle it.
Oh no she didn’t…
Can we not handle asking someone out? No. What we can’t handle is ourselves if they say no. It’s a small but significant difference.
I know, I know – to round out this piece it’s time to ask that age-old question — are guys turned off or on by a girl who asks them out? When girlfriends as me I say, “no! of course not! this is 2009!” but I don’t technically no (sorry Kelly) making this post a lot of do-as-I-say-and-not-as-I’ve-confirmed.
I’ll get back to you Monday with Blog Board research. You leave your own thoughts here.
And thank you Rachel — you’re a frustration to us all.
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Almost all of my relationships have started with me expressing direct interest in a guy. Now, I didn’t ask them to ask me out or ask them if they wanted to hang out, but said something to the effect of, “I think you’re really cool/interesting/smart and I like talking to/being around you.” The guys that were interested took the hint and asked me out officially and the guys that were not interested took the compliment, said thank you and didn’t pursue anything. Even when rejected, I didn’t feel too badly because I had expressed how I felt and the sentiment was true regardless of whether they felt the same about me. I will also add that I tend to go for guys who are more academic and shy (aka nerds) so I don’t know if this tactic would work with your average bar-hopping playboy.
I truly feel if I wouldn’t have made the first move then most of these guys would have assumed that I was not romantically interested and never pursued me. I was told as much by at least 2 of the my long-term relationships.
I think knowing (whether it’s good or bad) is so much better than wondering.
From a guy’s perspective, I wouldn’t have a problem with a girl asking me out or expressing interest. But “in a confident way” is different than in an “intimidating, dominant, and domineeringly overbearing way.” These may seem glaringly different, but really they are more similar than one might think.
Plus, I want the guilt-free option of not wanting to get involved with her/not liking her. I think that’s the hardest part of this scenario.
I totally agree with Erin, I’ve not necessarily directly told guys that I’m interested, but I think a lot of it comes from self-confidence. If you, yourself believe you’re worthy of a guy’s attention, they’ll see it. And not in a cocky way, just a confident manner.
And I’ve tested this from your nerdy science guy, through the politician, the cute bar guy and even a few male models.
Anna: Do you know what girls find sexy?
Seth: Nope. Uh, wait, let me guess. Dudes who play water polo?
Anna: Confidence!
Works the other way around too.
No… it couldn’t be that she is always hot and never seems to look as if one hair is misplaced or that she could cook somethin incredible at the drop of a hat! Definitely has nothing to do with it! 😛
Rachel sounds amazing. Tell her to write a blog too! 😛