Monday’s post incited quite a bit of insightful commentary (thank you Pierson).
Most of the broo-haha centered on the idea of calling someone out on account of bad behavior.
On Monday I implied that people get away with treating people like crap – flaking out, using people and the like – simply because they can…because we let them get away with it. If people stopped accepting that treatment and started calling people out, I surmised, maybe it would stop.
Mr. Anonymous #2, as he’s come to be known, posted an interesting comment in support. He said, “at a certain point for a 20-nothing, to see someone again for recreational purposes becomes more of a why not than a why. And when you’re not required to give anything when you have that kind of mindset, you don’t.” (should Mr. Anonymous not have been so Anonymous I would have sent him $20 for use of the term 20-Nothing as if it’s a real phrase. Too bad.)
If you know you’re not going to get caught, would you cheat on a test or steal an extra beer sitting on the bar? Chances are you wouldn’t because it’s wrong and you could get caught.
But what if the teacher told you to cheat? Or if the bartender said, “go ahead – I won’t tell my manager.” You’d probably do it because those people are authorities and they said it was okay — plus it’s just one little test and one measly beer.
When we’re complicit in someone treating us like crap we become that teacher or bartender – we’re letting them cheat on the test, steal the beer, or – in this case – hurt slash use us. Yes, they technically know it’s wrong, but if we say or imply that it’s okay, it becomes a different situation. And if an entire culture says or implies that it’s okay, it becomes a different system of values.
See there’s a bigger picture thing going on here. Mr. Anonymous #2 wholly admits that he did something wrong – and that he knew he was being a douche while he did it. That’s not always the case because of where we are as 20-nothings in our sexual culture. The nature of our modern hook-up situation makes the lines of douche-marcation very blurry.
Everyone hooks up. Most people are okay with it. (ear muffs Mom) I can’t think of one person in my life that’s only had sexual relations (I’m including all four bases here) with people they intend to pursue a long-term relationship with. I’d venture to guess you couldn’t either.
So is it wrong and hurtful if the other person is in full agreement? If both people are using each other does it just cancel out? If neither has anything interest in it going anywhere, does it matter who blows whom off first?
I want to be clear here – He was not a nice man – but she didn’t seem to require that. He was barely in touch and she hooked up with him twice anyway. Maybe she was sad afterwards. Maybe she was hurt, but her behavior and response doesn’t suggest either. But back to the point…
Bottom line: Sometimes we really don’t know if he’s that into us. Sometimes it takes us getting a little hurt to find out someone is a douchebag (or douchebook, right Troms?). But sometimes we do know – or should know – and I believe it is in those circumstances that we should either stand up for ourselves by saying something or stand up for ourselves by saying nothing and walking triumphantly away.
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Amen!
(Not anonymous guy number 2)
great post, Jessie!
Also, I just want to point out that girls are just as equally guilty of doing what Mr. Anonymous #2 did as guys. This is slightly different, but I recently just stopped talking to a guy after a series of dates/hooking up because I didn’t know how else to end it. We weren’t at the point where a sit-down break-up discussion was necessary, and a phone-call/text seemed inappropriate. So after being “busy” a few times and then eventually not responding, even to the “are things ok?/did i do something wrong?/so you’re ignoring me now?” texts, he got the idea. Cruel and immature, maybe. But I’ve never been good as the breaker-upper.
A few years ago, I broke off a very non-relationship by explaining that he seemed like a very nice person but I wasn’t interested. To clarify, we met in a bar because my friend was trying to hook up with his friend, had a nice and semi-coherent conversation, exchanged numbers, never went on a date but he kept calling. For some reason he heard “please stalk me.” In the end, I was forced to block his number to get the call and texts to stop.
Bottom line, you can only control your actions. Someone who tries to do the “right” thing you can still get screwed/hurt/stalked.
I can’t believe that people are raising such a stink over #2’s comment…I mean if you think that’s bad, your eyes are closed to the world and the way at least half of the guys out there treat women.
To your post – if a guy realizes he doesn’t need to try, he’ll take advantage of it. He’ll have his things on the side, the things he’s working toward, and then he’ll check back in at some point when he’s bored or needs some ass. Was #2 straight up trying to be a dick? I don’t think so. Did his actions resemble what a dick (ha) would do? Sure. If the girl turned him down or said something, then she’d really be able to see what kind of guy he was based on his reaction/response.
Just wanted to add one other thing here that I think has been overlooked- it might seem tangential, but I feel it is quite relevant.
Finding a healthy relationship/lover is largely (dare I say, mostly) about wanting the same things. No I don’t mean you both just looove a good Barney’s co-op sale, or adore sipping fair trade coffee while perusing the NYtimes in the ‘burg… I mean that you both, emotionally want the same things. Not everyone loves in the same way or wants to be loved in the same way either. And sometimes depending on circumstances we can or can’t love a certain way at a certain time… So my (convoluted) point here, is that Jessie is largely right- you are the master of your emotions and actions. Make them clear! Fuck it. Fuck them. If they (potential lovers) can’t hang then it won’t work in the end.
With that said I know certain people who find #2’s behavior attractive- I know couples who both fell in love by being distant from each other, and others (like me) who love wholly and completely (even smother)– both may be unhealthy/healthy in some ways but point is you find “the lid for your pot”
Hope I made sense, and seemed to be relevant– I’m a virgin blog poster…
this is all so sad.. You “20-nothings” have lost “something” in an attempt to find “everything”
This was a really remarkable post, well done!